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John
11-02-2011, 03:20
Do you think it makes a difference the angles you have your rods ? or your lines entering the water ?

If you think it works give us an idea of why you think it did ?

Personally i have my rod tips just barely touching the water if i can, if not i get them as close as possible, and try to have the tips pointing at the rig. Do i think it makes a difference, only in being able to connect with the fish quicker, other than that im unsure, hence the question :tu:

big trev
11-02-2011, 09:35
Good Question John. I also like to have my rods pointing directly at the bait, I think there is less resistance and when im Pike or Catfish angling then I need as little resistance as I can get. One of the reasons why I prefer to use single bank sticks. Mostly I will have the rod tips under water so that the wind if any cant blow it about and give me false registrations on the alarm.

That said; if I am in a situation where I am fishing any where near snags or suspected snags then I prefer to have my rod at an angle of 45degrees with the butt ring tight up against the alarm and everything locked and solid, I will also sit very close to my rods.

If I am fishing from platforms then I will be guided by conditions on the day and the area I have my bait, in this situation there will be angles in the line from rod tip to bait.

Scotfins
11-02-2011, 15:01
It absolutely makes a difference....ie where your fishin to a spot time after time to a spot you know fish frequent...If your laying line over the patrol routes, it can kill the spot...You move round the water to fish from a different angle and your getting pick-ups..Even used tight lines on a lake to keep carp up one end of it... I've watched Carp coming into a swim and decending from the top layers of water in circles down through the water til they feel a line, and then roll on the line before sloping off...I do prefer fishing banksticks, terrain allowing, with rods towards the baits if possible too..

Bendog
12-02-2011, 11:52
I think fish can see a lot better than a lot of ppl think so yes i do think it makes a difference. I do a lot of margin fishing and I think when ur fishing close in u have to make more effort to hide line, rigs est. I try and have my rods following my line down into the water and use a flying back lead to try and pin down some of the line near the rig as leadcore and leaders are band on most waters i fish.

John
01-01-2012, 16:45
Ive found since posting this thread, that the closer the rod tips are to the water, especially using running rigs, the bite indication is better :think2: or is it just me...

jonny vegas
02-01-2012, 21:38
i think its even more important when fishing slack lines as regards to indication to fish with the rods pointing directly at the baited area. but i think its very hard to have the line slack around the lead area, no matter how much you slacken off from the rod tips!

the nowed serpent
03-01-2012, 02:01
i think its even more important when fishing slack lines as regards to indication to fish with the rods pointing directly at the baited area. but i think its very hard to have the line slack around the lead area, no matter how much you slacken off from the rod tips!

By the very nature of slacklining the easiest place to have the line laying on the lake bed (which is what slack lining is all about) is by the lead so not really sure where you're having a problem :think: unless you're not leaving the line to sink after you cast, it can be a problem if you tighten the line after casting and then expect the line to lay flat just by feeding line off the reel after you've tightened it as you would for fishing tight lines, this problem is exacerbated the further away you're fishing. The sinking of the line is made much easier by using a good quality fluorocarbon. It is much more of a problem when the lead is surrounded by weed but that's a different ball game altogether.

Andy

jonny vegas
03-01-2012, 02:22
the point i,m trying to make andy is most anglers will tighten uo to take any slack, bows out their lines, thus tightening the lineto lead, then slacken off from the reel,, there will always by tension due to this and of course undertow in the lake, the koda dvd,s are proff of how the line actually sits in the water,

Pacman
03-01-2012, 13:30
I'm not sure it makes a diference to be honest (apart from slacklining), go and see the Europeons fish, most of them have their rods high in the air and they catch plenty of fish, and they're not all fishing at 150 plus either.

I'm too young too remember :p But a lot of carpers (1970's) first started with 5oz leads and having their rods high, once cast out they would wind in just until the rod was starting to bend under the pressure from the lead and leave it at that. When Mr Carp came along and picked up the bait the rod would bounce back helping to hook the fish ;)

For me personally, yes, I have my rod tips down and if possible pointing straight at the bait:cool:

the nowed serpent
03-01-2012, 16:28
I'm not sure it makes a diference to be honest (apart from slacklining), go and see the Europeons fish, most of them have their rods high in the air and they catch plenty of fish, and they're not all fishing at 150 plus either.

I'm too young too remember :p But a lot of carpers (1970's) first started with 5oz leads and having their rods high, once cast out they would wind in just until the rod was starting to bend under the pressure from the lead and leave it at that. When Mr Carp came along and picked up the bait the rod would bounce back helping to hook the fish ;)

For me personally, yes, I have my rod tips down and if possible pointing straight at the bait:cool:

I was carp fishing in the 70's and I'm not sure where you get the idea we were using 5 oz leads from :think: back then most carp rods were 10' long and the general tc was 1 3/4 with what was termed the stepped up carp rods having a 2lb tc fished with 8-10 lb bs line and I for one wouldn't even want to try casting a 5 oz lead with a rod like this. I still use a 10' Richard Walker carp rod from the 70's for my surface work and occasionally the pair of stepped up rods that I had made back then and there's no way they could cast anything like a 5 ounce lead. One of the ways used back then to assist with hooking fish especially at distance was the use of bolt rigs fished with a 2-4" hook length and a 2oz (max) lead, it certainly assisted with hooking fish but a method not to be recommended as the lead was fixed.

Andy

the nowed serpent
03-01-2012, 16:46
the point i,m trying to make andy is most anglers will tighten uo to take any slack, bows out their lines, thus tightening the lineto lead, then slacken off from the reel,, there will always by tension due to this and of course undertow in the lake, the koda dvd,s are proff of how the line actually sits in the water,

Just more examples of people not fully understanding how and why the slack line method works I'm afraid - if you gently brake the line before the lead hits the water to straighten out any bow in the line and then let the line sink, this is where a good quality fluoro line comes into its own as it doesn't coil thus leaving you with a relatively straight line from rodtip to lead. However due to the laws of physics this is NOT essential as pressure ALWAYS will take the line of least resistance even along the curve of the line as there is less resistance along the curved line than in trying to move the line from a curve to a straight line. Therefore if you allow the line to sink when it hits the water rather than tighten up on it then it should lay along the bed of the lake albeit sometimes in a curve, things become more complicated when you add long distances, weed and/or a strong undertow as this can cause a line to lay in varying bends which can cause the line of least resistance to alter as each change of direction then becomes a fulcrum which sometimes leads to having to fish semi slack to overcome these problems which is even more of a misunderstood art than slack lining :wtf:

Andy

jonny vegas
03-01-2012, 20:30
the line will never be slack at the business end,, unless you wade em out! slack at the rod tip doesnt mean slack at the other end does it

the nowed serpent
03-01-2012, 20:59
When you say business end where do you mean as by its very nature the hook length is nearly always slack unless it's got caught up on something or you're using a pop-up which will put some tension on at least part of the hook length. Exactly why tightening the line after the lead has landed and then feeding line out causes problems the hardest bit is to try and get the line sinking along its length at the same time which is where a decent fluoro line comes into its own and why you should feather the line before the lead lands to straighten the line and hook length out as much as possible. As with most things in our sport there's no absolute and all we can do is try our best to get the rigs we fish as well presented and in such a fashion that we are at least confident with the presentation. What I was trying to impart was the fact that we are ruled in this method to a large degree by certain laws of physics which a lot of people ignore and say this method can't work unless . . . . . . and then come up with a pet theory which bears little resemblance to how the mechanics of the method actually work. One time I suppose when a bait boat will guarantee a better presentation as more waters frown on you walking baits out than even using a bait boat :think2: ;):lol::lol:

Andy

Pacman
04-01-2012, 00:20
I was carp fishing in the 70's and I'm not sure where you get the idea we were using 5 oz leads from :think: back then most carp rods were 10' long and the general tc was 1 3/4 with what was termed the stepped up carp rods having a 2lb tc fished with 8-10 lb bs line and I for one wouldn't even want to try casting a 5 oz lead with a rod like this. I still use a 10' Richard Walker carp rod from the 70's for my surface work and occasionally the pair of stepped up rods that I had made back then and there's no way they could cast anything like a 5 ounce lead. One of the ways used back then to assist with hooking fish especially at distance was the use of bolt rigs fished with a 2-4" hook length and a 2oz (max) lead, it certainly assisted with hooking fish but a method not to be recommended as the lead was fixed.

Andy

It was something a friend of mine told me Andy, I've never seen it myself so cannot give it as fact :cool:

the nowed serpent
04-01-2012, 12:14
Well if we get to fish together at any of the socials this year you can have a go at casting with my period set up and then you can make you own judgement on whether it's possible ;)

Andy

Seankp53
04-01-2012, 21:23
I will steer clear of the "flack" end of this debate, but have a similar (but not as fancy) period rod which is very similar, but branded Miller - not the beer even, but certainly not Richard Walker. I can only concur with Andy as to max 2 oz, but my preferred weight would be 1 or 1 1/2 oz running for for such a setup. Being a so called "lefty", I have 2 Mitchell reels, a 305, and a 1958 CAP (before Mitchell aquired the brand), wind with right hand.

I have seen Andy's setup when we fished together at Brasenose 2 Linear some time ago. Sadly not a venue that either of us enjoyed, but it did cement a friendship :yes:

It was that outing where I first encountered Mitchellman (an expert at servicing Mitchell fixed spool reels and sense of history in that genre). Saw the first 1/2 bail arm I've ever encountered.

Ok I'll stop there, because none of us caught anything, but it was an outing to remember, for me anyway.

I do believe some of our members saw my old bamboo rod that I used at another social, but I will leave that alone too.

Sean.

Seankp53
04-01-2012, 21:37
Oh Poo - think I did not answer the original question - forgive encroaching senility/distraction...

Where the tip of the rod is pointed depends entirely on the method of fishing (i.e. slack lines), the weather conditions etc. For example if I was out yesterday (high winds), my rod tip would be about an inch below the lowest ripple, otherwise in calmer about 1" above waterline.

As said direction of line to bait depends upon method, but I don't find that this makes a great deal of difference to me personally, as the rod does the indication if you are using the now standard buzzers and indicators. Entirely different story if you are using a Polaris ledger float, as you will then need strike conditions.

I don't know if I've answered any of those prevalent questions, but if not, please ask and I will answer as best as I can.

Sean.