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steve3100
27-02-2011, 22:29
over the weekend a local lake has lost 2 quite famous fish in this area a 46 common and a 32 mirror these fish were in a 85acre lake and only 15 carp in there just how gutting is that.

the dreaded otters have had them this loss to me is simply not excuseable for any reason let alone otters worst still they aint able to restock being a SSSI water.

when will anybody start to listen to anglers conserns over otters :evil: :evil: :(

Malc
27-02-2011, 23:22
Devastating news Steve.

Unfortunately when it comes to the do gooders who feel the need to protect nature and increase the numbers of certain species, including Otters, I'm afraid us Anglers are fighting a battle we will never win. Nature conservation groups are backed by politicians and there are more of them for conservation than for Angling. Even celebrities are all for the Otters, we aint got a hope in hell, the Otters will inevitably win the day. I know what I'd do if I owned a water and Otters got on there.
Remember the days when banning Fox Hunting was all talk then before we knew it Fox Hunting was banned all together. The MP for Herefordshire was ALL for the ban, FFS he wasn't from the area, the countryside, he was from London, WTF did he know about rural life, nothing at all, he listened to a do gooder group and thought he would get more votes by backing them.
Sod it I aint getting more in to this, makes me blood boil.

John
28-02-2011, 00:48
Bad news steve indeed, even more potty that it cant be restocked,even more potty that more otters will be released into the wild by the tree huggers, without a concern for anything else.

carpfanatic
28-02-2011, 23:45
................****, aim, trigger, pull. Problem solved :tu:

Same shit, different forum, different thread. Only way they will get dealt with is down the barrel of a gun in an efficient, tidy and stealthy manner.

steve3100
01-03-2011, 20:29
it is a real shame indeed i can see this water being devoid of fish altogther in a few seasons if the otters carry on eating there way through them :( :(

John
01-03-2011, 23:39
theres been another carp killed by an otter, the famous colemere little mouth has been found dead :td:

bigjason
02-03-2011, 19:52
otters are a pest in a few waters up in scotland. if the lake that is getting otter kills has any pipes neer it you wil probably find them there then all you need is a hard terrior (jack russell) or dig it out problem away

the nowed serpent
03-03-2011, 00:45
otters are a pest in a few waters up in scotland. if the lake that is getting otter kills has any pipes neer it you wil probably find them there then all you need is a hard terrior (jack russell) or dig it out problem away

Just don't let anyone see you doing it :!:

Andy

John
04-03-2011, 16:49
it is a real shame indeed i can see this water being devoid of fish altogther in a few seasons if the otters carry on eating there way through them :( :(

Steve i'll come up for a walk round with ya and bring my staff with me :cool: he sees one he'll maul it, mind nothing else will be safe either :lol:

steve3100
04-03-2011, 23:06
bring him up matey will make sure i put something over my legs first tho :cool: :lmao:

steve3100
18-03-2011, 16:26
dont quote me on this but im hearing on the grapevine colemere has lost 2-3 more of its carp to otters.

not many left for them to eat now the place will be devoid of carp :evil: :evil:

carpfanatic
26-03-2011, 23:22
Shit that :(

dangerousbrian75
20-04-2011, 21:56
it is a real shame indeed i can see this water being devoid of fish altogther in a few seasons if the otters carry on eating there way through them :( :(

Steve i'll come up for a walk round with ya and bring my staff with me :cool: he sees one he'll maul it, mind nothing else will be safe either :lol:



love it. :mrgreen: :P brings out that killer animal instinct in us does a little slaying of nasties. lets get em...

Seankp53
21-04-2011, 01:34
Devastating news Steve.

Unfortunately when it comes to the do gooders who feel the need to protect nature and increase the numbers of certain species, including Otters, I'm afraid us Anglers are fighting a battle we will never win. Nature conservation groups are backed by politicians and there are more of them for conservation than for Angling. Even celebrities are all for the Otters, we aint got a hope in hell, the Otters will inevitably win the day. I know what I'd do if I owned a water and Otters got on there.
Remember the days when banning Fox Hunting was all talk then before we knew it Fox Hunting was banned all together. The MP for Herefordshire was ALL for the ban, FFS he wasn't from the area, the countryside, he was from London, WTF did he know about rural life, nothing at all, he listened to a do gooder group and thought he would get more votes by backing them.
Sod it I aint getting more in to this, makes me blood boil.

Cannot but agree with what grumps has said. Could not have put it better myself. But somewhere in the back of what remains of my mind, I also think that otters probably have more right to be there than I do. Not to be namby pamby about this, I would "encourage" them to move on if it was my livelihood water. Yes, I mourn the passing of slain carp, but nature has it's own ways, and maybe we should not mess with that too much either, even if it effects our favourite hobby.

Sean.

the nowed serpent
21-04-2011, 04:05
Devastating news Steve.

Unfortunately when it comes to the do gooders who feel the need to protect nature and increase the numbers of certain species, including Otters, I'm afraid us Anglers are fighting a battle we will never win. Nature conservation groups are backed by politicians and there are more of them for conservation than for Angling. Even celebrities are all for the Otters, we aint got a hope in hell, the Otters will inevitably win the day. I know what I'd do if I owned a water and Otters got on there.
Remember the days when banning Fox Hunting was all talk then before we knew it Fox Hunting was banned all together. The MP for Herefordshire was ALL for the ban, FFS he wasn't from the area, the countryside, he was from London, WTF did he know about rural life, nothing at all, he listened to a do gooder group and thought he would get more votes by backing them.
Sod it I aint getting more in to this, makes me blood boil.

Cannot but agree with what grumps has said. Could not have put it better myself. But somewhere in the back of what remains of my mind, I also think that otters probably have more right to be there than I do. Not to be namby pamby about this, I would "encourage" them to move on if it was my livelihood water. Yes, I mourn the passing of slain carp, but nature has it's own ways, and maybe we should not mess with that too much either, even if it effects our favourite hobby.

Sean.

I must agree with Malc here and disagree with the end of Seans' comment - if you take Sean's argument to its logical conclusion we will end up with White Tailed Eagles , wolves and brown bears roaming the whole country. Nature does indeed have its own way and one of those ways is to balance the ecology, if any creature is totally protected then given favorable conditions numbers will spiral out of all proportions as has happened with badgers, cormorants, brent geese, canada geese and now otters (Canadas are now present in such numbers that a few years ago they were reclassified and put onto the pest species list - to little to late). A similar thing has happened on the Kent Sussex borders with the wild boar that were released/escaped into the wild a few years ago, there are places down here where it's possible to see anything up to 100+ boar in a single field at first light. Now these are big animals and again until recently it was not allowed to cull them, it is now but they are now present in such numbers and in such widespread areas that it will never be possible to control their numbers efficiently. Now don't get me wrong I live in the countryside, work in the countryside and spend most of my leisure time in the countryside but most of the people who make the laws that govern the countryside never get out into it and as a consequence a lot of the laws governing the countryside are totally impractical :l8r:

Nowadays in this country the nearest thing we have to an apex predator is the fox so man now has to fill that niche and control the numbers of burgeoning predators and other species that are approaching plague proportions - otters included ! I'm not saying all otters should be killed but their numbers should be controlled, they are now present in every county in the UK which is a situation that hasn't occurred in my lifetime (and I'm an Old Git like Sean ;) )

Anyhow paraphrasing Malc in his post "Rant over 'cos it's winding me up :!: Also I'm off fishing to France tomorrow :bounce:

Andy

Seankp53
22-04-2011, 00:54
Your points are well made Andy, as usual. I think you hit the nail right on the head in one regard - it's not nature that's doing this, it's politicians/do gooders who have never visited the habitats we speak of, who encourage uncontrolled growth in numbers of species that have effect on the sustainability of other species. Ecosystems are fragile and probably best advised to take heed of those that use/sustain them than the aforementioned meddlers.

In defense of what I said, I enjoy nature as well as fishing, so seek to preserve/encourage initiatives that promote conservation wherever possible.

Sean.

John
25-06-2011, 19:39
Anyone thinking of getting rid of otters illegally, should have a read of this.

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/news/131013.aspx?month=6&year=2011

If your caught, as there a protected species you will be hit with criminal charges.

the nowed serpent
26-06-2011, 02:31
I just have one observation to make here and that is regarding the comment that says these traps are illegal - they're NOT :!: What is illegal however is setting them in such a way as to trap a protected species ie an otter, the same trap can be set to catch mink and is then perfectly legal - don't you just love the laws that pertain to the countryside even most of the police who are responsible for enforcing the laws don't understand them properly.

I was quizzed last year because I'd been out shooting Canada geese in February by a bobby who obviously hadn't been told they had been on an open licence as a pest species for the last 3 years - he went back to the station a sadder and wiser man ;-)

Andy

John
26-06-2011, 09:41
Being a city boy the hunting and setting traps of animals is not something I'm familiar with.

So Andy as your the man for hunting on here, is there a difference between an otter trap and a mink trap, and if as this is a hypothetical discussion, someone on here wanted to remove otters could it be proved that the traps were for mink rather than otters :think2:

Scotfins
26-06-2011, 09:50
Can set the cages to have smaller entry holes for the mink.. Otter holes and runs are quite easily spotted. unless their in pipes or whatever...So whatever you set can be observed from a distance?.......Share the love...embrace the otter :) Vegetable rights and peace.....

the nowed serpent
26-06-2011, 11:05
First legally there is no such thing as an otter trap ! When setting traps for mink the most common type are the Fenn Mk IV which are not live catch they work on a strong spring which kill pretty much instantaneously, they are designed to be set either in a box tunnel or inside something like a dry stone wall or alongside a fence(if alongside a wall or fence then the trap should be covered over with anything that will limit access to the target quarry) If there are otters in the area then the way to set the trap is to limit the size of the entry hole if it's in a box tunnel this is easily done purely by using a smaller box if in a natural setting then the entrance has to be limited by ensuring rocks or logs are placed in such a way as to limit the size of the animal to get through to it.

Traps should NEVER be set in the open for two main reasons firstly because there's no way of being selective in what goes into the trap and secondly because some muppet is likely to either steal or destroy the trap :slap: There is NO way in which it's legal to catch, kill or disturb a protected species such as otters or badgers apart from a special licence which is hardly ever granted, currently the only major exceptions are 3 sites in the country where licences have been issued for a cull of badgers in an experiment to see if the incidence of bovine TB can be reduced by a long term cull of badgers who are a major carrier of the disease.

Andy

Carpbreakout
30-08-2011, 14:26
Seems to me that as quoted in Oliver Twist - when the Beagle is advised that in the Laws eyes he is responsible for his wife - "the law is an ass". It seems to me if they can't catch thieves; control areas of cities; stop thugs terrorising people; and protect known terrorists in this country who we can't send back to their home countries because they will be treated cruelly (surely they should have thought of that before they did what they did); then what sort of priority/chance of catching someone for killing an otter?

the nowed serpent
30-08-2011, 20:17
You'd be amazed at how many bunny huggers are out there ready to try and cause aggro ! ! So people have to be very careful what they say and do.

Andy

Shiner
11-09-2011, 01:56
We had a pair of otters on our local haunt four years ago and they did cause us a headache for a while but we did eventually get rid of them. Our old gamekeeper told us to keep pestering them and not let them settle anywhere, so thats what the anglers did and after one season they left and moved off elswhere, probably to a river a mile away from the lake, we haven't seen them since thankfully. The lake did suffer the loss off a few decent fish so glad they scarpered, now all we need to do is solve the cormorant problem.

steve3100
11-09-2011, 22:14
knowing that there is quite a few otters now roaming around the area i fish and even a new family of them being spotted this year its been really hard for us to accept this but we have no choice english nature and the public for that matter will always stick up for the furry little otter and not give a hoot about the fish they destroy along the way or in some cases even destroy a whole fisherie.

this arguement will not go away but the otter problem is just part of the bigger picture thats causing angling in general headaches. trouble with the otters they will kill anything and not even eat the whole fish which makes it even harder when they take out a large carp that is almost none replacable.

angling as a whole simply aint big enough or more so organized enough to put up a case against the re-introduction of otters and until that day comes we will all have to swallow that bitter pill of otters taking fish from our lakes.

steve3100
11-10-2011, 20:47
well im sad too report that the effin otters have taken 1 of our up and coming mirrors at 27lb this week:(:mad:

it was obvious otter damage we had high hopes for this fish it was putting weight on nice and steady.

ive been informed today also there has been another fish found dead with otter damage today another fish in the mid 20s

these furry little monsters are really starting toget on my nerves the last 6-7yrs we have had a really good stocking programme in place and these things are starting to destroy all the hard work the club has put in.

the nowed serpent
11-10-2011, 23:39
Short of putting a full rabbit proof fence around the lake the only way to keep the little beggars out is with a 3 or 4 strand electric fence but the problem here is light fingered oiks !

Andy

CrazedCarper
11-10-2011, 23:41
Thats sad news steve,, sorry to hear that.

Stanwick lakes installed there little electric fence and it works a treat, if you want i will get you in contact with phil to maybe trade views or tactics.

All i can offer in the form of support mate!:cool:

steve3100
12-10-2011, 20:40
Thats sad news steve,, sorry to hear that.

Stanwick lakes installed there little electric fence and it works a treat, if you want i will get you in contact with phil to maybe trade views or tactics.

All i can offer in the form of support mate!:cool:

trouble is our smallest lake is 17 acres going upto 125 acres so lakes of this size fencing is not an option of any sort and also english nature are very keen the otters thrive in this area so we really are up against it on this 1. although they know about the devastation otters are causing up and down the country im in 2 minds to send them pics of the dead fish showing that they eat very little of the fish but almost kill them for fun which to me makes this issue even worse i could perhaps understand if they killed fish and ate the whole thing but they dont:(:(:mad::td:

oldblueeye
20-11-2011, 19:16
I just have one observation to make here and that is regarding the comment that says these traps are illegal - they're NOT :!: What is illegal however is setting them in such a way as to trap a protected species ie an otter, the same trap can be set to catch mink and is then perfectly legal - don't you just love the laws that pertain to the countryside even most of the police who are responsible for enforcing the laws don't understand them properly.

I was quizzed last year because I'd been out shooting Canada geese in February by a bobby who obviously hadn't been told they had been on an open licence as a pest species for the last 3 years - he went back to the station a sadder and wiser man ;-)

Andy

Very true Andy, although it also depends on where the traps are set..i.e it IS illegal to set any traps in water, regardless of what the pest species is that's been targeted.

Cheers
OBE

beanz
22-11-2011, 00:33
i can kind of understand if your a fishery owner,the lose of stock to otters would P me off. but as a business its no different to a resession/or what ever reduces income. but as an angler that pits himself against nature i find it ironic(if thats the right word) that otters get such a hard time....if its ok to sign a petition to cull/stop the restocking/protection of them then isnt that the same/or as bad as, as agreeing angling should be banned????shouldnt the reason why they have to find food in still waters, sea bird are coming inland taking their food surply because of over fishing, be something us anglers have stand up for???its too easy to blame nature rather than man though.

the nowed serpent
22-11-2011, 03:44
Very true Andy, although it also depends on where the traps are set..i.e it IS illegal to set any traps in water, regardless of what the pest species is that's been targeted.

Cheers
OBE

Sorry to disagree but I'm afraid you're wrong there OBE it's perfectly legal to trap species such as signal crayfish and minnows in water it's just illegal to set traps for warm blooded creatures in water ;)

Andy

John
05-01-2012, 22:06
There is finally an online petetion to stop the spread of otter ...

see link

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/26208

:cool:

Russ-c
05-01-2012, 22:18
Done But not many signed it yet :td:

John
05-01-2012, 22:21
Done But not many signed it yet :td:


signed my self aswell, ive just spread it as best as i can on facebook and will share to twitter aswell :tu:

Smithy
05-01-2012, 22:25
Signed and shared the best I can on Facebook & Twitter.

Otters should be treated the same way as tresspassers.....DEALT WITH ON SITE!

the nowed serpent
05-01-2012, 22:35
Yep - what John said :tu:

Andy

Carpbreakout
05-01-2012, 23:49
think Smithy it might not be prudent to broadcast in detail your policy, I'm sure its against the law since there a protected species and there may well be tree huggers reading this.

Smithy
06-01-2012, 00:08
Thats a far point mate, just trying to get across my opinion on them that all.......and they are only MY opinions:cool:

Carpbreakout
06-01-2012, 00:12
understand that matey, if I was you I think I would edit the post to make it more moderate. Sometimes best to play it safe,


:cool:

Smithy
06-01-2012, 00:16
Probally for the best, done......dont want to upset anyone:hw:

Carpbreakout
06-01-2012, 09:14
Loved it mate! More concerned about you not getting in the Sh**, than upsetting someone.

carpfanatic
06-01-2012, 12:46
There is finally an online petetion to stop the spread of otter ...

see link

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/26208

:cool:

Signed :cool: Don't hold much hope though.

Have you all heard that Mark Holmes is in the process of setting up the Carp Fishing Defence League?

Weed-Camo
06-01-2012, 15:15
Have managed to get hold of some badges

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u106/mikee334/BADGE.jpg

"Any takers ? " :p

carpfanatic
06-01-2012, 15:19
:rofl: Oh dear.

steve3100
06-01-2012, 15:28
signed up this morning will pass the link about:cool: is it 10,00 signatures to start a debate in parliment? lets hope alot of anglers sing up.

Weed-Camo
06-01-2012, 16:56
There is finally an online petetion to stop the spread of otter ...

see link

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/26208

:cool:

Signed but will not help the sale of my badges :td:

the nowed serpent
06-01-2012, 16:57
Have managed to get hold of some badges

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u106/mikee334/BADGE.jpg

"Any takers ? " :p

Yes but I couldn't eat a whole one ;)

Andy

Carpbreakout
07-01-2012, 14:04
I don't think that picture of them on the badge, does them any favours at all! Thought they would have made them look cuter to appeal to the masses.

Malc
08-01-2012, 13:49
Petitions, does anyone seriously think that a load of signatures will stop the spread of Otters?

We've seen it all before, petitions to stop developers building on Green Belt land, petitions to support building of roads, the list is huge. It's very rare that the peoples voice get's heard and to be honest I don't think the likes of our Government give a toss.

Weed-Camo
14-04-2012, 18:27
Found these t shirts on E-Bay back right is the one I think you will like

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u106/mikee334/ebay_tshirts2.jpg (http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u106/mikee334/ebay_tshirts2.jpg)

Bluelabel
23-10-2012, 16:12
Playing devils advocate here for a moment.... I hear lots of anti-Otter ranting and yes they are reaching pest proportions, but as with cormorants they are only living their lives on instinct, they are not sentient or self aware, they are a wild animal trying to survive.......

The real nub of the problem are the left-wing tree-hugging tossers who even considered the re-introduction of wolves into the more remote parts of Scotland.....

It's them as need shooting inna face

Hope this helps:p:p:p

Malc
23-10-2012, 21:41
I hear lots of anti-Otter ranting and yes they are reaching pest proportions, but as with cormorants they are only living their lives on instinct, they are not sentient or self aware, they are a wild animal trying to survive.......

Thing is Blue, the Otters which are being released to the wild life are more than likely born and bred in captivity so not completely wild. The explosion of Otter population is mainly down to humans. I was told a story last year, van parked near a lake in South Cerney was spotted, when Police arrived the van was empty, but was almost certain to have had young Otters in it. Police couldn't do a thing about it, van and driver was all above board so no action taken. Not heard of anyone saying they've seen Otters up there and not heard of any fish found on the banks which have been killed by Otters either, but there are loads of waters in that area, big waters at that.

John
02-11-2012, 02:12
There are some right turkeys on facebook, claiming otters have completely wiped out lakes and ponds :???:

Firstly an otter wont wipe out an entire stock of fish, its in its genetic make up to leave fish to breed, so it has somewhere to come back and feast, so if a fishery has been wiped out, look for other answers instead of otters, even though they are a problem.

It also surprises me how many publicly state what they will do to an otter :lol: enjoy the stretch if your caught is all i will say :cool:

The wild otters are not the problem here, its the hand reared ones that were released illegally, im no tree hugger by far, but think if i seen someone mercilessly killing an otter, i would intervene.

They were here before us, the food chain cant be changed, an otter kills a fish to eat, no differently than a human kills a cow,pig,chicken for there food to survive.

Like i said im no tree hugger, but people really need to stop and think, its not the otters at fault, its the clowns who released them that are at fault surely?

debate it :cool:

CrazedCarper
02-11-2012, 02:37
Ive held back from posting on this due to a lack of knowledge about it, but uts reminding me of something that happened a while back. When zander were introduced into our river systems there was a massive uproar that they would decimate our native pike along with other species of course fish, now in the fullness of time weve seen that the zander have leveled out and now are just another part of our coarse species and low and behold our pike are still about :lol:

So my question is,, wont nature just do its thing and they just level out eventually anyway?? just a thought..

the nowed serpent
02-11-2012, 03:23
The main difference between zander and creatures like otters and mink is that the zander fry and small zander are preyed upon by the likes of pike whereas otter cubs and mink kits have no major predators not least due to the protective attitude of the parents consequently any levelling out of the species involved is far more unpredictable. As far as wiping out the stocks in any particular pond is concerned, otters WILL happily wipe out all the fish in a small pond and then move on as they are by nature nomadic, added to which otters will also feed on nesting birds, eggs, reptiles or amphibians and have even been known to attack chicken runs so aren't that bothered if a pond is temporarily cleared of edible sized fish also a females territory will often cover a matter of a couple of square miles while males on the other hand will have a territory that cover up to six female's territories 'cos they're not what you'd call monogamous :think2:;)

Andy

CrazedCarper
02-11-2012, 10:52
Do fox's not attack otters and mink? i always thought they did! :hmm:

I cant be good at EVERYTHING!! lol this is a learning curve!

Carpyjon
02-11-2012, 12:18
Just out of interest really, there is a feature in Total Carp mag every month called swim 101 (based on the room 101 idea that Im sure you are all familair with). Anyway, in the November issue Martin Locke is making his three choices of things to sling into swim 101, and top of his list is otters. The world at large just dont get it, with otters kinda representing all that is good about mother nature and the british country side, but for some fisheries they are becoming more and more of a problem. It is a taboo subject coz the world at large are really gonna struggle to see the anglers point of view on otters.

Just thought I's say...out of interest his two other choices to put into swim 101 were traffic hold ups when you are on your way to a lake, and too much kit! Would certainly agree with him on the kit one...and Im the worlds worst (you never know, I might just need that kitchen sink...ha).

As I type this, a thought occurs to me, but not sure if we have got a room 101 feature anywhere, but might be worth starting something off...shamelessly plagiarise the Total Carp idea I know, but could be interesting...

the nowed serpent
02-11-2012, 13:04
Do fox's not attack otters and mink? i always thought they did! :hmm:

I cant be good at EVERYTHING!! lol this is a learning curve!

Nope an adult otter will see off a fox and mink are just evil - I've seen a mink even go for a human who was indiscreet enough to take a swing at it with a shovel, mink are frightened of nothing, they're fast and aggressive. Foxes just aren't that aggressive, they are hunters who will take every opportunity to kill prey items but are rarely willing to attack another large animal unless backed into a corner when the flight or fight response kicks in and even then they will take the earliest opportunity to leg it.

Andy

John
02-11-2012, 16:34
Just out of interest really, there is a feature in Total Carp mag every month called swim 101 (based on the room 101 idea that Im sure you are all familair with). Anyway, in the November issue Martin Locke is making his three choices of things to sling into swim 101, and top of his list is otters. The world at large just dont get it, with otters kinda representing all that is good about mother nature and the british country side, but for some fisheries they are becoming more and more of a problem. It is a taboo subject coz the world at large are really gonna struggle to see the anglers point of view on otters.

Just thought I's say...out of interest his two other choices to put into swim 101 were traffic hold ups when you are on your way to a lake, and too much kit! Would certainly agree with him on the kit one...and Im the worlds worst (you never know, I might just need that kitchen sink...ha).

As I type this, a thought occurs to me, but not sure if we have got a room 101 feature anywhere, but might be worth starting something off...shamelessly plagiarise the Total Carp idea I know, but could be interesting...

We do have a room 101 somewhere, maybe anything goes or general discussion :think2:

Back to the otters.

Would be interesting the thoughts of these angler/fishery owners if they weren't what they are ;)

Bluelabel
02-11-2012, 17:01
One of the things I've noticed is that from a distance otters and mink look similar.... I wonder how many incidents that are attributed to otters are actually down to mink....??? anyway from another point of view, instead of blaming the otter, who in reality is just an animal trying to survive, how about we round up all the ****'s who've introduced them illegally and shoot em inna face:cool::eek::p

Carpyjon
02-11-2012, 17:15
...how about we round up all the ****'s who've introduced them illegally and shoot em inna face:cool::eek::p


Harsh but fair me thinks...!!

Bluelabel
02-11-2012, 17:31
I have to say that on occasion I've been accused of being somewhat totalitarian... but only if the buggers deserve it.... I'm not a cruel man...:think2::p

the nowed serpent
02-11-2012, 17:34
Although mink and otters do have a similar body shape (after all they're both mustelids) there is a very noticeable difference in size also mink's habits are vastly different as they are just as happy climbing trees to hunt birds and eggs like a pine marten or to go down into a warren to hunt rabbits as well as hunting fish. Mink are also far more likely to find a burrow and stay put whereas otters tend to feed in an area for a while and then move on. If you know what to look for there is a difference in both the tracks they leave and an otter spraint looks totally different to mink droppings and if one of your dogs has the nasty habit of rolling in either the smell is very different due to the difference in their diets (as you may gather one of my labs is a DEDICATED roller in all that is smelly :eek::td: ) Anyone who spends much time by the water and manages to see both species will very soon manage to distinguish between the two and tbh if you watch much TV it is often apparent which is which as both mink and otters have had more than their fair share of television time ;)

Andy

Bluelabel
02-11-2012, 17:55
That may well be the case Andy, but as with a lot of anglers, not all are as clued up on wildlife as others... I think that many people would see a mink which as you say has a similar body profile (albeit smaller) remember an article in the angling press, put 2 and 2 together and come up with 5.... especially if seen at a distance where identification is always a bit of a lottery... not defending the little feckers, but there is scope for mis-identification

Carpyjon
02-11-2012, 18:33
... mustelids...

This is hereby declared the word of the day and must be used in conversation by everyone for the rest of the day!!

the nowed serpent
02-11-2012, 18:36
As with all identification it's a matter of practice after all it was only in the summer that the wild life trusts were saying that Kent was the only county in the country without wild otters - a few days after which they were bombarded with otter pics from Kent :rolleyes: and I suppose if they can't ID 'em what chance is there for the rest of us :coat: :lol::lol: As good a reason that I can think of for anglers to keep an eye out when fishing after all it all counts as reading a water.

Andy

carpfanatic
02-11-2012, 18:39
One of the things I've noticed is that from a distance otters and mink look similar.... I wonder how many incidents that are attributed to otters are actually down to mink....??? anyway from another point of view, instead of blaming the otter, who in reality is just an animal trying to survive, how about we round up all the ****'s who've introduced them illegally and shoot em inna face:cool::eek::p

I've had mink within 6ft of me on many occasions on my local Calder Valley - bold as brass they are. What you have just said is worth consideration, but, for me, if anyone cannot tell the difference between a Mink and an Otter then something isn't right. Your average Otter either male or female is more than twice the size of the equivelant in Mink and we all know Dog Otters are a big animal, being in excess of 1m from nose to tail. Even a large Dog Mink only gets to 40-45cm in length, tops.

Otter's are now the apex predator on the ground in the UK. Top carnivore/piscivore, it's unfortunately as simple as that. A Fox would not compete 1-1. Only thing that would take an Otter down is a large bird of prey, such as a Golden Eagle and they're not exactly sat on every street corner :rofl:

Sad times ahead... and wait while you see what i am about to post in a new thread... :slap:

Bluelabel
02-11-2012, 18:54
Dan, there are people who have difficulty identifying their catch let alone predators on the bank.... you take a town dweller who only ventures out once a month to fish... the limit of their wildlife ID skills are probably along the lines of.... if it flies its a bird, if it swims its a fish, and if it's anything else they're stuffed... which is why and how mis-identification takes place

carpfanatic
02-11-2012, 19:01
Dan, there are people who have difficulty identifying their catch let alone predators on the bank.... you take a town dweller who only ventures out once a month to fish... the limit of their wildlife ID skills are probably along the lines of.... if it flies its a bird, if it swims its a fish, and if it's anything else they're stuffed... which is why and how mis-identification takes place

What you are saying is true in a minority, but for me these people are a minority and are few and far between. 99% of anglers will know what a Mink, Otter or a Cormorant is and will be able to distinguish between them. These animals have received enormous press over the past 5 years or so.

I'll distinguish between the swines via a scope and a trigger.

carpfanatic
02-11-2012, 19:37
Taken abroad, think it is a Giant River Otter, lifted from Clive Gibbins wall. The fish is is an 89lb Arapaima :o

Obviously i know this species is much bigger than ours, but that is mental.

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/522796_4945925209582_2081302005_n.jpg

These animals are on average 90-100% bigger than our Eurasian Otter, so this could be a good size guide in terms of the size of fish these animals are capable of taking. 40lb fish kills have been documented with our Otters, so logically, this would seem not far off the limit (half the size of this example here).

the nowed serpent
03-11-2012, 00:41
Giant Otters are awesome predators they can grow in excess of 6 foot in length and often hunt in family groups until a new litter is born and are quite capable of seeing off alligators :eek: just be thankful that no tree huggers have attempted to introduce them over here :think2: ;)

Andy

carpfanatic
03-11-2012, 01:46
Yeh, you don't realise how big they are in relation to the fish :cool:

Which in itself is awe inspiring as you can then get a true understanding of the size of fish those animals can tackle :o

That one is a Male Otter too as i have been reading about it from the place the photo was taken, so that animal could indeed be 5ft or more from nose to tail :o The Otters themselves are said to weigh in at + or - 70lbs, depending upon sex etc :o :o